Converging Worlds: Technology and Art in Modern Creativity | ft. Sharifa Lafon

Join our host, Heather Crank, as she sits down with the accomplished Sharifa Lafon, Executive Director and Chief Curator of Denver Digerati. Sharifa, a visionary in the realm of emerging media, shares her journey of redefining artistic boundaries through the innovative use of AI and augmented reality (AR).

🌟 Discover how Sharifa’s leadership at Denver Digerati has transformed the organization from a traditional animation festival into a dynamic hub for experimental art forms. Hear about her unique approach to curating an artist residency program that fosters creativity and collaboration among local and global artists.

🏙️ Sharifa also sheds light on the challenges and triumphs of navigating Denver’s evolving art scene, offering insights into creating sustainable community models for the arts. As an advocate for open-source software and self-trained artists, she emphasizes the importance of accessibility and innovation in contemporary art.

👩‍🎨 For aspiring female leaders in the arts and tech, Sharifa shares candid advice on balancing professional and personal creative pursuits. She underscores the significance of community support and resource sharing in driving forward the next generation of artistic expression.

Tune in for an inspiring conversation that reimagines the future of art through the lens of technology, experimentation, and inclusive collaboration. Whether you're an artist, a tech enthusiast, or simply curious about the creative possibilities at the intersection of art and science, this episode is a must-listen!

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:12:13


00:00:12:18 - 00:00:51:03
Unknown
Welcome to episode 18 of the Developing Life podcast. The worlds of technology and the arts continue to converge, bearing witness to this evolution. How can we, as creators, begin pushing the boundaries to what's possible with AI, and are tools to move into new and innovative pathways of artistic expression? Today, we are delighted to have Sharifah Laffan, an accomplished educator and artist who currently serves as the Executive Director and Chief Curator of Denver Riding Colorado, a nonprofit specializing in emerging media celebrating the intersections of art, science and technology.

00:00:51:03 - 00:01:23:21
Unknown
Working with hundreds of artists globally each year. She's also deeply involved with Tilt West, another art nonprofit in Colorado, conducting inclusive roundtable discussions and debates on a range of issues from creativity to cultural production and social change within the state and beyond. Sharif holds an Ma in Visual Studies and degrees in both our history and Photography for the University of Colorado Denver, and as she prepares to begin her PhD in Critical media practices at the University of Colorado Boulder.

00:01:23:23 - 00:01:44:10
Unknown
Her work continues to inspire and redefine artistic bounds. Joined by our host, Heather Crane, we'll explore Sharif's journey through the arts and her vision for the future of artistic expression, uncovering how artificial intelligence and augmented reality are not just tools, but tandems, and crafting the next generation of art.

00:01:44:10 - 00:01:50:08
Unknown
Hello, Sharif, welcome. It's so nice to see you. It's been a little while.

00:01:50:10 - 00:02:11:02
Unknown
It has been, yeah, I think 3 or 4 years at this point. Yeah, probably. Yeah. I bet it's more like four years. we had this lovely intro, but is there anything else you'd like to add or anything you'd like to say about, you and what you're currently doing? I actually thought that was a really nice introduction.

00:02:11:07 - 00:02:31:07
Unknown
Made me sound very fancy. yeah, I feel like it's funny. I think when you're when you're in the thick of it, you don't really think about the way that you would describe yourself. So I think when we get into the conversation that will allow me to share more of what I've been up to. Okay, you got it.

00:02:31:09 - 00:03:09:00
Unknown
So let's start with the first round of questions that I have prepared here for you. You became the director and chief curator of Denver did Girardi a few years ago. And I'm really curious how taking this role, changed you as a person and what you discovered around work life balance. Yeah, I feel like, you know, it's interesting taking on a project that isn't your own because initially, you know, I really loved working with Ivan, who is my predecessor, and really valued the vision that he had for the organization.

00:03:09:02 - 00:03:32:23
Unknown
but, you know, like, all things, no two people are the same. So the way that I see the world is different than the way that he did. And so it really took me it took some time for me to be able to start thinking of the organization as my project and shifting it into the direction that's aligned with my values, and kind of what I'm looking at in terms of art and, technology.

00:03:33:01 - 00:04:00:09
Unknown
And so I went through this process of kind of initially trying to keep it the same and feeling a lot of discomfort surrounding following my interests. And then over time, and the longer that I've been in my role, sorry, my cat here, the longer that I've been in the role, the more comfortable I've been in, you know, following, following the trends that I see and the direction that I want to take the organization.

00:04:00:09 - 00:04:25:03
Unknown
So that has largely centered around, a couple of major shifts in our programing, one being that the organization primarily focused on, animation. and we open that up along with this was a decision that I made with our current board, into focusing on a more broad definition of artists who are using technology in their work.

00:04:25:03 - 00:04:57:09
Unknown
So this could be an experimental sound artist. This could still be an animator, it could be an experimental filmmaker. But what we wanted to focus on is the art forms that are difficult to define. So honing in on experimental practices and looking at the value and experimentation that doesn't always create a polished product at the end, we're really interested in ideation and the formation of new and different ideas and creating pathways to get there.

00:04:57:11 - 00:05:22:02
Unknown
and so with that, the second change that we've made in the last couple of years is having an artist residency program. So we work with, primarily local artists, but also artists from outside of Colorado on either integrating tech into their work or just facilitating them and their practice. So we had Rick Meyers, and she came and lived with me for three months last year.

00:05:22:04 - 00:05:45:12
Unknown
So she did not need any help. She was established and, you know, kicking butt in her career. but being able to bring her work here to Denver for a more, just involved period of time where she was really able to ingrain in the community and, you know, make work, have exhibitions, but also performance. And so that's kind of the direction that we're headed.

00:05:45:12 - 00:06:24:07
Unknown
And I think that it's been a lot of fun. I really enjoy, the artists that I get to work with. So initially Denver did Girardi. for those people who don't know, it was primarily an animation festival that would happen downtown, and there would be a lot of projection mapping and billboards and, buildings. And it sort of lit up Denver and I did watch the progression as, as you guys moved it more into the theater arts arena and performance and more artistic venues, which I absolutely love.

00:06:24:09 - 00:06:52:21
Unknown
you're grounded in technology and emerging tech, so I would love to talk about how Denver is going through this massive growth phase. And, from when I was there, it kind of boomed, in every a lot of artists left, but then a lot of artists came in. So I'd love to hear your ideas and thoughts about the way Denver's changing and how this changed your venue and the way you're relating to the art in Denver.

00:06:52:23 - 00:07:20:22
Unknown
Yeah. So for for people who aren't familiar with Denver, we actually were incubated under the Denver Theater District, which is a tax district in downtown Denver. and they put art content on media billboards and then run individual art projects. So there's a gallery, that actually I will I will promote them. They have a gallery called understudy that has one of the the most supportive artist stipends, I think, in Denver.

00:07:21:00 - 00:07:55:00
Unknown
and Annie, Thad and David just run a really excellent program, that's focused on that, you know, activations in that area of downtown Denver. but since we have become a standalone nonprofit and separate from their organization, our programing has shifted. And so we kind of follow we follow the community, and we are really invested in growing community and creating opportunities for people to invest in each other and to network and to spend time together.

00:07:55:02 - 00:08:25:20
Unknown
with the goal of having that cross-pollination of ideas. and so, you know, what I've noticed, actually, is that Denver is in a significant period of growth. but it is actually created a really challenging arts economy here. primarily due to lack of space. the rents in Denver are really expensive, and there is not a lot of, affordable housing, access to housing really challenging.

00:08:26:02 - 00:09:08:07
Unknown
And while there is an abundance of surplus commercial real estate rental on those properties, and then coupled with property taxes, make it out of reach for artists studios or for small nonprofits. And so we're seeing a lot of obstacles that really, you know, they weren't there a few years ago and have been increasing in difficulty. so one of the things that I'm really interested in, which will will be a part of my PhD research, is looking at alternative models for the nonprofit sector and primarily the tier three nonprofit sector, which is the the portion that I am part of.

00:09:08:09 - 00:09:36:15
Unknown
in looking at ways to share resources and, alternative modes of operation that utilize community models for, for building organizations. so our artist residency is housed in a historic building called the Denver Evans School. We're actually in the process of seeking to change the name. but it is run by Red line, which is another nonprofit here in Denver.

00:09:36:15 - 00:09:58:08
Unknown
And they help to facilitate affordable artists studios. So the building is full, but primarily it's used as artist studio space. we're one of the few in the building, and there are others that use the space to share with others. So we actually don't occupy our space there. We use it for the residency program in an effort to share space and resources.

00:09:58:13 - 00:10:21:21
Unknown
So it's fully outfitted. It has a tech infrastructure. And then we we work with artists to provide the equipment that they need to spend time in this space where there is no you know, they don't have to pay anything to utilize the space or to access the equipment. and so that's one of the ways that we're working to combat some of the challenges in our local community.

00:10:21:23 - 00:10:46:08
Unknown
Oh, I love that red line. If you're not familiar with Red line is a spectacular gallery. I'm a big fan of Red line. If people wanted to apply to your residency, how would they find that? So it's primarily word of mouth. And so it's I go through a vetting process. And so it's either someone that I directly know or someone one that is known by someone that I know.

00:10:46:08 - 00:11:07:06
Unknown
And the reason is, is that we basically turn over the keys in an inventory. and so we want to make sure that it's someone that we have actions with, with the, dollar amount attached to that inventory. but anyone who's interested can email me, and my email is found on our website. or even the info email also comes to me.

00:11:07:06 - 00:11:29:03
Unknown
So I take all of those proposals and I usually ask that artists, send me a proposal so that I know what they're interested in doing. And then I typically schedule a conversation to find out what their needs are, to make sure that I'm scheduling them according to time in my schedule, or the availability of my board to meet their their associated needs.

00:11:29:05 - 00:11:56:11
Unknown
Wow, that's a lot of work. it's wonderful that you do that. it's really sweet that you're being so present with the artists. this leads me to my next question, which, as you stepped into this leadership role and as a female leader in the arts and tech, I would love to hear your thoughts about that and what advice you would give other women stepping into leadership roles in art and tech?

00:11:56:12 - 00:12:42:06
Unknown
You know, it's hard from the perspective of giving advice, because I think I don't take the advice that I would get. You know, one of the things that I see in the community, that there are a wealth of really amazing executive directors who, consequently, are mostly women who work just ridiculous hours. and so the amount of time that they spend invested in the nonprofit structures of their organization to be a resource to the community, to artists, to viewers and, people who patronize gallery spaces if they have a gallery space.

00:12:42:07 - 00:13:20:13
Unknown
I feel as though we need to do more surrounding having conversations about what that job actually looks like. And I've been working with a local community, task force, if you will. It doesn't really have a name of other nonprofit organization leaders to begin to address some of the questions related to work life balance. challenges in the funding models and then performing formulated and invested research to, to kind of assess some of the challenges that we're facing to find solutions.

00:13:20:15 - 00:13:45:18
Unknown
so for anyone who's looking at the nonprofit sector, the biggest thing that I would advise is that you have to be someone who is invested in others in in helping to facilitate opportunities and career growth for other people, which often comes at your own expense. I have an arts practice myself, and I find that it's always on the back burner.

00:13:45:20 - 00:14:18:07
Unknown
And what I've found is that other executive directors who are also makers themselves, experience a similar situation where they often find that at the end of the day, all of their creative energy has been spent through their role and there isn't a lot left over. And so that's the biggest thing that I'm working on now, is scaling to do less, saying no more and making sure to be protective of the time that I have for myself in order to engage in my own projects.

00:14:18:07 - 00:14:57:03
Unknown
And I think that that's where where my interest in this research project comes from, because, you know, there isn't for most nonprofits, and particularly mine, which focuses on non tangible art objects, there isn't a revenue stream. And so demonstrating value in relation to the role that this plays in our society, whether it's engagement in the arts, access to critical thinking through dialog, or learning new skill sets that translate broadly that these things have significant community value, that is outside of a capitalist model.

00:14:57:03 - 00:15:32:00
Unknown
You know, we're not we're not selling things. And that is one of the biggest challenges that I think I face. That's really true. It's it's leaning what you do leans definitely more towards fine art. And being able to do that and survive this. It's a lifelong challenge. as a board member of speaking of, of the arts centered nonprofit to West, where you are for focusing on the arts and discourse for the community, in case you didn't have the reference for what we are talking about right now.

00:15:32:02 - 00:16:02:07
Unknown
Sharifa, as an art historian, what are your thoughts right now on the way? Technology is going, the kind of submissions you're getting and what you'd like people to know as they submit to Denver? To Geraghty, I know that, part of what's happening and I'm watching it myself as a motion designer is the floodgates are kind of open to more people who maybe don't aren't schooled in some of the, artistic principles.

00:16:02:09 - 00:16:28:23
Unknown
And not that they don't have it, but it just makes it a much wider field to have to kind of sort through. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Yeah, I have several, so hopefully I can organize my brain. so the, the first thing is that I when I get up on my soapbox to talk about why I feel that my work is important.

00:16:29:01 - 00:16:53:08
Unknown
I can do a lot with a global slate of artists for very little money. because it's a file transfer, I and I often say I'm not building crates. We're shipping things across the world. I'm able to work with artists all over the world at the fraction of a budget that, say, a museum would for shipping paintings.

00:16:53:10 - 00:17:35:21
Unknown
and what that allows me to do is to engage in a global perspective of the world, of our interaction with each other and the artworks that are produced. And I think that that's hugely important. And there is a big part of me that feels as though media based works are the future in terms of being able to produce them with limited resources, to be able to share them broadly, and also for the sake of collaboration, that it allows you to collaborate with a really wide, variety of people that you wouldn't necessarily have access to in your own community.

00:17:35:23 - 00:18:04:20
Unknown
And I think that is really important. what I'm seeing, though, is this mix of and I'm a huge fan of the self-trained artist, and particularly in the realm of open source software. So like my artists that are using blender and making and credible work, and they completely bypass the academic system, which, you know, only a small fraction of of what the majority of schools teach is related to an arts practice.

00:18:04:20 - 00:18:26:20
Unknown
You know, it's a rounded education that isn't to fit for everyone. and as an educator, I see that in my students that they all have different personalities and ways of seeing the world. And I feel like it's my job as an educator to meet them where they are, rather than expecting them to conform. But with that being said, you know, higher ed is not a fit for everyone.

00:18:26:20 - 00:19:05:17
Unknown
And so I feel as though the access to open source software is vastly important to allow a lot of different makers to have their ideas be put into the world. what I see, though, and I think that in the last couple of years I've seen the floodgates open with regard to submissions created using AI. and what I always tell my students is that it's a really important tool that you can utilize to manipulate or modify what you've already made, but that I'm actually going to close the store.

00:19:05:17 - 00:19:35:20
Unknown
I'm so sorry. That's okay. There's a dog barking. That's okay. I think it's weird when it's being recorded. I didn't want a dog barking on your recording. that when you use it as a tool to help facilitate what you've already created, I think there's some really interesting ways that that can be done. And I've seen a few projects, from artists who have used AI to modify what they have already made.

00:19:35:20 - 00:20:01:14
Unknown
And I think that those can be very interesting. What I'm getting, though, is a large number of submissions where AI is used for scriptwriting, where it is given a prompt and the full script is written, or the visual input is completely created. through machine learning and those I don't find them that interesting. They tend to be a lot longer and, in duration.

00:20:01:16 - 00:20:37:05
Unknown
so say, you know, where the average is like 5 to 10 minutes. You know, the AI pieces tend to come in around like 25 to 30 minutes. Well, but they don't have a strong narrative arc. the visuals are really starting to look canned. They all look largely the same with very little difference. And so I think that there are a lot of people who perhaps don't have the original imaginative thinking to create the story that they want to put out into the world.

00:20:37:09 - 00:21:17:00
Unknown
And we know that that that's really challenging. I mean, even if we look at the film industry of how many ideas get recycled over and over again, it's a special skill set. It's really hard. So I don't want to minimize how difficult it can be, but I think that it's actually a time because there are so many ideas, that artwork is ubiquitous, there's so much being pumped out into the public sphere that it's more important than ever for people to focus on their own unique perspective, the way that they see the world, which is something that only they have to offer.

00:21:17:02 - 00:21:46:21
Unknown
it is something that can't be replicated that that can't be, created out of thin air. And I think that that returning to that is the idea of, where good art comes from is from good ideas, and that that is the most important thing. Oh, I love that. I am a big advocate. of coming back to what makes us human is the tools become more and more sophisticated and can do more and more.

00:21:47:03 - 00:22:10:08
Unknown
I do feel like that human connection in that human element, in that human experience is going to become more and more valuable to us. I, I cannot agree more with you. we are in an election year right now, and usually what happens is you can predict the trends that will come the following year based on how advertising works in an election year.

00:22:10:10 - 00:22:35:15
Unknown
And I'm watching it right now, and I'm seeing a lot of AI, a lot of AR, VR. I'm seeing a lot of, holograms coming online. So I'd love to hear your thoughts about potential upcoming trends that maybe you're noticing in submissions or just in the art word world in general, and what we might kind of expect to see in the next year.

00:22:35:17 - 00:23:03:20
Unknown
Yeah, I, you know, interestingly, in thinking about immersive work, I have been more interested in challenging what it means to be immersed. And so thinking about using immersive theater as, you kind of an inspiration and thinking about what that looks like. So, for example, this year for the festival, we are partnering with the Nature and Science Museum, which I'm really excited about.

00:23:03:20 - 00:23:30:05
Unknown
It's a new partnership, on their infinity screen, which is, it's the Imax size, but they don't want it more. Just to give you an idea, because I know that not everyone is, familiar with the term infinity screen. but we're running a film that is an experimental film that will also have a live sound composition, interaction with viewers and then also live singing.

00:23:30:05 - 00:23:54:00
Unknown
So thinking about how we engage in an immersive experience as one that is shared rather than singular. So I, we've run a lot of VR projects over the last few years, but it's an experience where you're having it alone. And so I am currently really interested in how we come back to community and come back towards shared experience.

00:23:54:01 - 00:24:24:16
Unknown
And so I am seeing more and more of that in the performance space. And I'm hugely interested in this space where there are collaborations between artists that come from disparate mediums. I also run an underground performance, series with an art, a local artist named Joshua Ware, who's a sculptor and a poet. and we mix people together that have never met, and that they have very little time to come up with a performance.

00:24:24:18 - 00:24:47:20
Unknown
And I think that that trend of really kind of doubling down on performance art is something that is growing, at least here in Denver, in significant ways and showing a lot of interest. I think that people are actually interested in being together, and that that is something that we saw at the end of the pandemic that is continuing in these really beautiful ways.

00:24:47:22 - 00:25:13:20
Unknown
and that is the, the, the trend that I see likely to continue, in regard to it being an election year, you know, our theme for this year, Decode Recode, we really were interested in people who are subverting dominant ideologies and and wanting to push into the political framework to get, works that that are made along along those lines.

00:25:13:22 - 00:25:42:08
Unknown
What was interesting, though, is that while they are political works, we received a surprising number of submissions from women, and so it has shifted the whole theme of the festival this year into works that are made by, for and about the experiences of women. And I think not just body autonomy, but more broadly about the experience of women.

00:25:42:08 - 00:26:05:22
Unknown
And I think that that was, you know, it was it was unexpected in the way that it took form. And I'm really excited to this program this year. I am I'm really proud of, and I feel as though people who get to come and see the screenings that we're showing are going to also feel that same connection to the artists that have created these works.

00:26:05:22 - 00:26:29:02
Unknown
And I see this continuing. I think that there have been so many changes, and in the legislation in the United States in the last, you know, couple of years, and people are responding very strongly to that. And I think that we'll continue to see works along those lines as well. Oh, I love that. That's so exciting to me as a female in this world as well.

00:26:29:02 - 00:26:53:12
Unknown
I love seeing women step up. I love seeing them move into tech and have a broader voice that makes me super happy. Excuse me. so what is next? Speaking out for Denver. Dr. Girardi, you've got this upcoming programing. I'm assuming it's on your side. If people would like to come and see the screenings and, next year and the following year, what's your trajectory?

00:26:53:14 - 00:27:21:16
Unknown
Yeah. actually, the the programing will not be out until August 1st. So we just sent our acceptance notifications yesterday. So I'll be working on building the website and also shifting it into, accessibility requirements for the state. So that's what we'll be working on for all of July. And the full program will come out August 1st. But I can say that our, opening will be on September 15th and our closing on September 21st of this year.

00:27:21:16 - 00:27:49:22
Unknown
So that date range, if anyone wants to hold dates, and we will likely do some online programing this year as well. next year is our 10th year and I'm excited about that. And, you know, one of the things that we didn't really talk about today is the intersections of queer artists making digital artwork that, is a huge part of artists that we represent and also work that we like to showcase.

00:27:50:00 - 00:28:11:10
Unknown
and so for year ten, I really I'm, I'm interested in a, highlighting those works. And I have a lot of them this year. Obviously we're going to show them this year. but making that a centerpiece of the festival for the next season. so we're still thinking through, I mean, we haven't come up with a theme.

00:28:11:12 - 00:28:48:03
Unknown
but there's just brilliant artists out there that we would love to, just provide the centerpiece for a, an in-person, party like atmosphere for our 10th year alteration of a full decade of the festival. And, you know, I, I don't know what the future brings. I think that I try to always be nimble and I want to be able to pivot, to meet the needs of whatever the community is, is desiring at a given time.

00:28:48:03 - 00:29:06:13
Unknown
And so it's hard to answer that question in terms of of really being able to predict, what's going to happen. I love that, I love that you're doing that next year. I've got to find a way to get there that's going to be amazing. Please come. I would love it. I would love it. I'm going to find a way.

00:29:06:15 - 00:29:43:10
Unknown
so I'd like to shift gears over to your PhD program, which you're entering this fall, I believe. Is that correct? Yes. Yeah. So what prompted you to go to this PhD program? And, the research that you're looking to do, doing for the nonprofit sector? I'm just curious, like what prompted your choice to do this? You know, honestly, I so and obviously it's not in my bio or part of the information that's online about me, but I didn't go back to school until really late in my life.

00:29:43:12 - 00:30:15:03
Unknown
I, I'm a person that didn't have access to education. And so to be perfectly honest, I never thought of getting a PhD. That just did not seem like something that was in the cards for me. and actually, to be honest, going through the application process really revealed the ways in which academia can be very diverse in terms of the conversation surrounding race, but not always as diverse in terms of the conversation surrounding class.

00:30:15:05 - 00:30:37:03
Unknown
and I found that to be interesting in, in, in just my experiences of, of those intersections, which obviously, there is no one size fits all and I don't want to make any generalizations about any program or school, but, I have often felt as though I don't fit in. So I think that's kind of the root of that feeling.

00:30:37:04 - 00:31:05:05
Unknown
and one of my, board members and collaborators, Kevin Sweet, who has just been a pivotal person in my life. We in fact, when I was developing my thesis, I don't think that my master's thesis would have taken form if it weren't for him listening to me talk about it for hours and hours. and through those conversations, he was the one that was like, you know, you really should do a PhD program, given the things that you're thinking about and the things that you're interested in.

00:31:05:07 - 00:31:45:02
Unknown
So it was the culmination of many hours of conversation that made me decide to apply. And and then that was a long, kind of convoluted process. And then I got in. And then I have been, you know, coping with the anxieties surrounding like, okay, I got into this program, now I have to actually do the work. in addition, like, I'm a single parent, I have kids, I work, you know, so there's there's a lot that I'm juggling that I feel, you know, an amount of anxiety surrounding whether or not I'm going to be able to show up in a way that I expected of myself.

00:31:45:04 - 00:32:08:02
Unknown
but I'm excited about it. I think that the faculty is wonderful. There are a few people up at CU Boulder that I'm so excited to work with, and, it's a really welcoming atmosphere. The other students are welcoming, the faculty is welcoming. So I think that that is what makes me feel like I can be successful. in terms of what I want to do.

00:32:08:02 - 00:32:34:20
Unknown
And this is a it's a practice led by PhD you. So you do a traditional dissertation in addition to having an arts practice. So there is this also there is also this motivation of I have to make artwork. And so I will center myself a little bit more because it's part of the requirements of this program. And so interestingly, I'm, I'm wanting to shift into more of an ecological direction with my work.

00:32:34:20 - 00:32:57:15
Unknown
And that is something that's new to me. So doing the research surrounding what that looks like and how that practice will develop, in addition to looking at a chapter based model for my dissertation, I'm interested in this territory. Research on the nonprofit sector. But kind of the umbrella of my research is looking at that which cannot be commodified.

00:32:57:17 - 00:33:23:06
Unknown
and I'm interested in ephemeral artworks, performance based artworks and the importance that they, that they, that they add to to the art world in general, but that they don't have the same type of place. When we think of, like going to a museum to look at artwork that going to see an experimental performance is usually not part of that visit.

00:33:23:07 - 00:33:48:22
Unknown
but nonetheless equally as important in my mind. So I'm, I'm really excited to dig into these concepts and also figure out how they're all related. I think that they are related, but I need to create those, like concrete connections between them. So what's so interesting to me about that too, is that a lot of technology has a pretty dark shadow as far as its environmental impact.

00:33:48:22 - 00:34:27:20
Unknown
How do you feel about that? You know, I, I think that there are the larger corporate entities are responsible for a significant amount of the environmental impact, and that what I do with my laptop at home is not contributing in the same manner. And I, I feel as though we live in a world now between war and climate change and all of that and expense, you know, expensive cost of living, that the only thing that we can do is, is kind of hyper focus on what's in front of us.

00:34:27:22 - 00:34:52:07
Unknown
and so I try, I, I feel as though I'm a very empathetic person, and I do become really bogged down by staying in the know. And so sometimes I am kind of blissfully unaware of things that are going on in the world, because it's the only way that I can go through my day and so, like all of the things that I do, I think of the ways in which I can have direct impact.

00:34:52:07 - 00:35:23:02
Unknown
So if it's sharing a resource, providing something that I can actually, tangibly and concretely help with, then that's what I focus on. And I try to, kind of keep blinders on. I mean, I know that there are people who would would argue that that's a form of ignorance, but I do think that if I cannot make systemic, broad change and some of these bigger, overarching problematics, I can in these smaller ways through my daily activities and my work.

00:35:23:02 - 00:35:50:10
Unknown
And that's where I choose to focus. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. There's no point in being overwhelmed is in if you're overwhelmed, you can't do anything. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I understand that, I have a question here from our lovely Darren. He says, I know it's different from everyone, and I'd like to hear what the top 2 to 3 environments or scenarios are that inspire creative thinking on a personal level.

00:35:50:10 - 00:35:53:23
Unknown
To Sharifa.

00:35:54:01 - 00:36:27:13
Unknown
Can you clarify what you mean by environments? Hold on a minute. Pull up the questions so I can read it. It's in the chat. Yeah. Darren, do you have a clarification for the yeah settings outside of a direct I the biggest thing for me is being out in nature. I, I actually had a significant yoga practice for like 20 years and, and during the pandemic, it was all I did.

00:36:27:13 - 00:36:49:21
Unknown
It was the only thing that would help me to get into a healthy mental space. But what I found in about a year ago is that I could no longer tap into that mental space through my meditation practice, and I'm not really sure what happened. but I have been able to find it through hiking, and so I, and I use the term hiking loosely.

00:36:49:21 - 00:37:12:10
Unknown
I'm not an athletic person, so it's like I'm surely walking away. but I tend to hike every single day, and I, I go out, I usually block out an hour or two in the evenings. I go before sunset. So there really isn't anyone. Everyone hikes in the morning, which to me it's hot. I think it's the worst time to go.

00:37:12:12 - 00:37:34:11
Unknown
I go out as the sun's going down and Colorado is really dry. But as as we start to reach dusk, you can feel the humidity in the air rise. And so it is this different environment. And I really enjoy being out in the forest. And so I don't know, I don't imagine myself living in the mountains indefinitely.

00:37:34:11 - 00:38:03:08
Unknown
So I don't know how I'll replace that. But for the time being, that is one of the most important things for me every day. And having periods of time where I'm disconnected, I don't know. I don't know if you've experienced this, Heather or Darrin. If you have, I am really bogged down by email and I. I cannot quite understand where the issue is coming from, but, email and the constant connectedness is negatively impactful for me.

00:38:03:08 - 00:38:30:09
Unknown
So finding ways to disconnect and and not be on a computer or not be at the beck and call of other people has been something that I've been prioritizing. and then actually, I had a great experience over the weekend, which is new, but I am going to continue to do it. one of my close friends, John Cena, took me for my birthday to, sensory deprivation tank.

00:38:30:11 - 00:38:53:15
Unknown
and it was so wonderful. It you, like, lay in, in salt water and in the dark. and we did a 90 minute session. It was it was wonderful and I, I also because I'm in my 40s now, I'm having joint pain. So like I am never comfortable. I'm constantly shifting and trying to find a position of comfort.

00:38:53:20 - 00:39:18:00
Unknown
But laying in that water, I was like, I do not experience stillness very frequently because I always have to shift due to joint pain. And so that was amazing. and so I definitely think that there's something to that where you're just removed from everything and in a position where I.

00:39:18:02 - 00:39:39:21
Unknown
I yeah, I actually well and I went in and I was like, I'm going to sort through some of these things that I need to sort through mentally. I'm responding to True's comment, and she said that her mind would not shut off. I actually ended up not really thinking about anything, which was fascinating because I didn't struggle to get into that space.

00:39:39:21 - 00:40:02:08
Unknown
I wasn't trying to redirect my thoughts. I really just wasn't thinking about anything. And that was amazing because that doesn't happen to me. so it was a really wonderful experience. But I think that I think that creativity, one of the things I always tell my kids is that if you want to be creative, allow yourself to be bored.

00:40:02:10 - 00:40:29:15
Unknown
And I think that that is something for me that I am trying to tap into more. It's allowing myself opportunities where there is nothing to take my attention. Yeah, I get that completely. There's something about the speed at which things are happening, in the speed and the intensity of the constant communication. It does get very, at least for me, very overwhelming.

00:40:29:17 - 00:40:56:15
Unknown
And I too, I made a practice of shutting my phone off for periods of time and getting outside and just giving myself space, because I do think technology occupies such a huge part of our brain. And it's it's like being overstimulated. and I do have concerns as we adapt to this level of overstimulation. Usually it puts us at sort of, like off balance.

00:40:56:15 - 00:41:24:19
Unknown
So something has to be sacrificed in order for us to maintain that attention. yeah. And I do have concerns going forward about what we are giving up in order to have this hyper engagement. Yeah, it's it's concerning. Well, you know, and I, another artist who I had a great conversation with, but he's worth mentioning in the chat, Ian Hatcher, the performance artist and also up at CU Boulder.

00:41:24:21 - 00:41:56:22
Unknown
I went up to visit with him the other day, and we were watching this video that I had scanned and of it was a fitness, basically infomercial put out by Disney, and I think it was from the 60s or 70s. but we were just watching this video and kind of laughing at how exercise practice is something that has been incorporated into society in in an effort to counteract the ways that we've shifted in to not being active as humans.

00:41:57:00 - 00:42:18:04
Unknown
and so we we went down this rabbit hole of conversation and talking about mindfulness practices and that that is now such a big part of the vernacular, likely because we're always connected and we need to create space where we're disconnecting from each other. So we're not on social media, we're not on email, we're not on our commute computers.

00:42:18:06 - 00:42:41:14
Unknown
But again, it's all of these maladaptive strategies that we come up with to counteract the ways that we live, that are harmful for us. And I thought that that was he's a brilliant thinker and always brings up these really poignant aspects of humanity that I appreciate. And I have like one more question for you, and then I will open it up to anybody else.

00:42:41:14 - 00:43:08:18
Unknown
This question, one of my questions for you is, as we move into this new world of hyper technology and storytelling becomes and the human element becomes more and more important, how can people tap into that? Or where do they start if they get to a point where they recognize, oh, I'm getting too many denials from submissions, I can't figure out what it is.

00:43:08:20 - 00:43:57:01
Unknown
How do they, learn more about the art of storyteller? Link? It's a big question. I hear a lot of educators ask this question a lot, and I will say, I don't know the answer, but I know things that that that help and help from, you know, a statistical range of this being and practiced and looked at. But, I think that frequent making is really important, having a regular and consistent practice that is actually not focused on creating something that we would categorize is good, but just engaging in, in regular making.

00:43:57:01 - 00:44:27:23
Unknown
And I think that the more that we make, the better we become, because we become more practiced in what we're looking at and the ways that we are initiating the formation of ideas. I also think that looking at, you know, whatever medium someone's working in, looking at that medium consistently, I know for myself in terms of my own filmmaking practice, I look at so much content.

00:44:28:01 - 00:45:03:21
Unknown
and I specialize in shorts, but, I have watched over 2000 shorts in the last 12 months. Wow. Which is a lot. It's actually the most I've watched, and in a year's time in my career so far. But what I've noticed and it'll diminish, especially as I move away from the time of reviewing content. But right now, I'm kind of in this like all cylinders firing phase in terms of I am able to see bad cuts, like where there should be an edit, where there should be or the story is falling off.

00:45:03:23 - 00:45:29:22
Unknown
And so I think that and that is purely just by watching that, I'm looking at so much content that I'm developing a vocabulary surrounding my own taste, and that's always going to be individualized. It's not something that is ever going to uniformly apply, but I am developing my own taste structures surrounding my preferences, what I like, what I don't like.

00:45:30:00 - 00:45:51:13
Unknown
and so I think the combination of those two things I think are really important, and what I notice in my students is that they often will say, just tell me what you want me to make. And I am very, I do not create a lot of structure. I create scaffolding for them to follow, but not a lot of structure.

00:45:51:15 - 00:46:14:09
Unknown
And I usually on my fcks at the end of the semester, what I usually get is I hated this and it was the most helpful thing for me. And so I think that's also like you just gotta you just have to do the thing and do it a lot. Yeah. Growth is so hard. It can't. Getting out of your comfort zone and doing things that you don't like to do or you're not used to doing, it is hard.

00:46:14:11 - 00:46:41:12
Unknown
Yeah, it is. All right. So we are at 1246. I'm just going to open it up right now. If Devon and Tru have any other questions for you. and while I'm up here, here, we've got one right here. So when it comes to shared experiences that bring people together, are there any brands, physical or digital experiences or potential uses for tech that you see are especially exciting?

00:46:41:12 - 00:47:16:16
Unknown
And this is from Devon. I'm actually going to pull a quote from someone else. I, I produced a series of documentary years last year, and we're going to start releasing them as part of the festival. But one of the documentaries was about Deborah and Jason Bernard Cozzi, who run a nonprofit called Signal Culture. And we they do experimental performance, they build software, they have a residency program, they do amazing work.

00:47:16:18 - 00:47:46:11
Unknown
But in the interview, Jason said, one of the most poignant things that has stuck with me and we use it. It's like the sound bite that I keep coming back to. he talked about the ways in which industry provides technology and that we shouldn't be using technology as it's handed to us by corporate entities is that we should be finding new ways of using it and breaking it and finding alternative use, alternative usage.

00:47:46:13 - 00:48:20:00
Unknown
and that is the most exciting thing to me when I see artists who are taking something that they bought from a thrift store and modifying it to produce something that is different than its intended use. and to me, that's the most exciting thing. I mean, it's what it's what Raquel's work embodies is, you know, creating animated films on Commodore computers that were, that's not really how they were intended to be used, although that was a side function.

00:48:20:00 - 00:48:47:22
Unknown
The ways that she has utilized that to make it her own and to make it unique and interesting. And I also think that that's at the root of where some of the best work comes in, because if you are taking a piece of software or a piece of technology and using it exactly as it's intended, you're going to produce exactly the same thing as a large majority of the people who are also using that technology are following that tutorial.

00:48:47:23 - 00:49:12:09
Unknown
So I think looking at ways to break things is one of the best ways to be, unique and and finding ways to make something your own. I can agree more, Sharifa. That's all I have for you today. I want to thank you so much for joining us on the Developing Life podcast. It is so wonderful to see you again.

00:49:12:11 - 00:49:37:06
Unknown
And for those people out there who would like to connect with Shari, if you can find her at Denver, de Gerardi, you can also follow her on LinkedIn. under Sharif Laffan. Do I have that right? I go, okay, and, she will be out and about at the festival later this fall. Check out what Denver did Girardi has going on.

00:49:37:08 - 00:50:08:20
Unknown
oh, and Darren is asking, quickly here before we close this, if you could give a shout out to any influences you have, he would love to hear a few suggestions. Oh, I have so many influences of people that I think make fabulous work. You know, one of the biggest influences in my life is Oliver Herring, who, is a Brooklyn based artist who's born in Germany and his work is brilliant, but I have access to Oliver through.

00:50:08:20 - 00:50:33:18
Unknown
I've printed a lot of his work over the years, so I've worked for him. but because of that, I've had access to a lot of conversations, and he actually will be a chapter of my dissertation as well. but he has been hugely influential to my work in being able to see the ways in which he approaches his own, the way he sees the world, the way he thinks about things.

00:50:33:18 - 00:51:04:03
Unknown
And he is incredibly thoughtful and also very careful not to rush anything. He thinks about his ideas and their impact for a long time. That that I think is really beautiful and inspiring. so he's a huge influence for me. Aaron Ascoli, who is, a professor at CU Boulder and a filmmaker that also crosses these intersections between art and science.

00:51:04:05 - 00:51:36:11
Unknown
her work is amazing. And she actually her work when I look at her work, it makes me feel is that I can never be a fool. but nonetheless very inspiring. but she's also a gifted writer and an incredibly kind person. and then Jeff Lamson, who was my mentor at the Q Emmanuel Gallery and experience Gallery, Jeff was what I'm finding now, the longer that I'm in my career is that people like Jeff are really rare.

00:51:36:13 - 00:51:59:22
Unknown
he includes everyone and everything, and he is not so interested in hierarchies, both through his management style and also how he exists as a person. But he's fantastic. and I've gotten to know both he and his wife, Ann, who works at the Denver Art Museum. And so I feel like that group of people, I could go on forever.

00:51:59:22 - 00:52:21:12
Unknown
Maria. But at CU Denver, there are so many people that have been mentors to me and have really shaped who I am. And, after I hang, after we hang up, I'm going to feel bad for all of the wonderful people that I haven't mentioned. I think that's like focusing on community and surrounding yourself with people that inspire you.

00:52:21:12 - 00:52:43:19
Unknown
And I try to do that with everyone that I give my time to. So there isn't anyone in my life that isn't hugely inspiring to me. I think that's a beautiful place to end, and you are welcome to send us a list if you would like that, we will post under the your video of more of your, influence says I would love to get as many names out there as possible.

00:52:43:21 - 00:53:02:10
Unknown
Wonderful. I will do that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Sharif, it's lovely to see you. I hope it doesn't, so much time doesn't pass before we actually can speak again. Thank you everybody who's watching this podcast. And have a wonderful week. You know, you too.

01:38:11:09 - 01:38:49:18
Unknown
Welcome to episode 18 of the Developing Life podcast. The worlds of technology and the arts continue to converge, bearing witness to this evolution. How can we, as creators, begin pushing the boundaries to what's possible with AI, and are tools to move into new and innovative pathways of artistic expression? Today, we are delighted to have Sharifah Laffan, an accomplished educator and artist who currently serves as the Executive Director and Chief Curator of Denver Riding Colorado, a nonprofit specializing in emerging media celebrating the intersections of art, science and technology.

01:38:49:18 - 01:39:22:12
Unknown
Working with hundreds of artists globally each year. She's also deeply involved with Tilt West, another art nonprofit in Colorado, conducting inclusive roundtable discussions and debates on a range of issues from creativity to cultural production and social change within the state and beyond. Sharif holds an Ma in Visual Studies and degrees in both our history and Photography for the University of Colorado Denver, and as she prepares to begin her PhD in Critical media practices at the University of Colorado Boulder.

01:39:22:14 - 01:39:48:23
Unknown
Her work continues to inspire and redefine artistic bounds. Joined by our host, Heather Crane, we'll explore Sharif's journey through the arts and her vision for the future of artistic expression, uncovering how artificial intelligence and augmented reality are not just tools, but tandems, and crafting the next generation of art. Hello, Sharif, welcome. It's so nice to see you. It's been a little while.

01:39:49:01 - 01:40:09:17
Unknown
It has been, yeah, I think 3 or 4 years at this point. Yeah, probably. Yeah. I bet it's more like four years. we had this lovely intro, but is there anything else you'd like to add or anything you'd like to say about, you and what you're currently doing? I actually thought that was a really nice introduction.

01:40:09:22 - 01:40:29:22
Unknown
Made me sound very fancy. yeah, I feel like it's funny. I think when you're when you're in the thick of it, you don't really think about the way that you would describe yourself. So I think when we get into the conversation that will allow me to share more of what I've been up to. Okay, you got it.

01:40:30:00 - 01:41:07:15
Unknown
So let's start with the first round of questions that I have prepared here for you. You became the director and chief curator of Denver did Girardi a few years ago. And I'm really curious how taking this role, changed you as a person and what you discovered around work life balance. Yeah, I feel like, you know, it's interesting taking on a project that isn't your own because initially, you know, I really loved working with Ivan, who is my predecessor, and really valued the vision that he had for the organization.

01:41:07:17 - 01:41:31:14
Unknown
but, you know, like, all things, no two people are the same. So the way that I see the world is different than the way that he did. And so it really took me it took some time for me to be able to start thinking of the organization as my project and shifting it into the direction that's aligned with my values, and kind of what I'm looking at in terms of art and, technology.

01:41:31:16 - 01:41:59:00
Unknown
And so I went through this process of kind of initially trying to keep it the same and feeling a lot of discomfort surrounding following my interests. And then over time, and the longer that I've been in my role, sorry, my cat here, the longer that I've been in the role, the more comfortable I've been in, you know, following, following the trends that I see and the direction that I want to take the organization.

01:41:59:00 - 01:42:23:18
Unknown
So that has largely centered around, a couple of major shifts in our programing, one being that the organization primarily focused on, animation. and we open that up along with this was a decision that I made with our current board, into focusing on a more broad definition of artists who are using technology in their work.

01:42:23:18 - 01:42:56:00
Unknown
So this could be an experimental sound artist. This could still be an animator, it could be an experimental filmmaker. But what we wanted to focus on is the art forms that are difficult to define. So honing in on experimental practices and looking at the value and experimentation that doesn't always create a polished product at the end, we're really interested in ideation and the formation of new and different ideas and creating pathways to get there.

01:42:56:02 - 01:43:20:17
Unknown
and so with that, the second change that we've made in the last couple of years is having an artist residency program. So we work with, primarily local artists, but also artists from outside of Colorado on either integrating tech into their work or just facilitating them and their practice. So we had Rick Meyers, and she came and lived with me for three months last year.

01:43:20:19 - 01:43:44:03
Unknown
So she did not need any help. She was established and, you know, kicking butt in her career. but being able to bring her work here to Denver for a more, just involved period of time where she was really able to ingrain in the community and, you know, make work, have exhibitions, but also performance. And so that's kind of the direction that we're headed.

01:43:44:03 - 01:44:22:22
Unknown
And I think that it's been a lot of fun. I really enjoy, the artists that I get to work with. So initially Denver did Girardi. for those people who don't know, it was primarily an animation festival that would happen downtown, and there would be a lot of projection mapping and billboards and, buildings. And it sort of lit up Denver and I did watch the progression as, as you guys moved it more into the theater arts arena and performance and more artistic venues, which I absolutely love.

01:44:23:00 - 01:44:51:12
Unknown
you're grounded in technology and emerging tech, so I would love to talk about how Denver is going through this massive growth phase. And, from when I was there, it kind of boomed, in every a lot of artists left, but then a lot of artists came in. So I'd love to hear your ideas and thoughts about the way Denver's changing and how this changed your venue and the way you're relating to the art in Denver.

01:44:51:14 - 01:45:19:13
Unknown
Yeah. So for for people who aren't familiar with Denver, we actually were incubated under the Denver Theater District, which is a tax district in downtown Denver. and they put art content on media billboards and then run individual art projects. So there's a gallery, that actually I will I will promote them. They have a gallery called understudy that has one of the the most supportive artist stipends, I think, in Denver.

01:45:19:15 - 01:45:53:15
Unknown
and Annie, Thad and David just run a really excellent program, that's focused on that, you know, activations in that area of downtown Denver. but since we have become a standalone nonprofit and separate from their organization, our programing has shifted. And so we kind of follow we follow the community, and we are really invested in growing community and creating opportunities for people to invest in each other and to network and to spend time together.

01:45:53:17 - 01:46:24:11
Unknown
with the goal of having that cross-pollination of ideas. and so, you know, what I've noticed, actually, is that Denver is in a significant period of growth. but it is actually created a really challenging arts economy here. primarily due to lack of space. the rents in Denver are really expensive, and there is not a lot of, affordable housing, access to housing really challenging.

01:46:24:17 - 01:47:06:22
Unknown
And while there is an abundance of surplus commercial real estate rental on those properties, and then coupled with property taxes, make it out of reach for artists studios or for small nonprofits. And so we're seeing a lot of obstacles that really, you know, they weren't there a few years ago and have been increasing in difficulty. so one of the things that I'm really interested in, which will will be a part of my PhD research, is looking at alternative models for the nonprofit sector and primarily the tier three nonprofit sector, which is the the portion that I am part of.

01:47:07:00 - 01:47:35:06
Unknown
in looking at ways to share resources and, alternative modes of operation that utilize community models for, for building organizations. so our artist residency is housed in a historic building called the Denver Evans School. We're actually in the process of seeking to change the name. but it is run by Red line, which is another nonprofit here in Denver.

01:47:35:06 - 01:47:56:23
Unknown
And they help to facilitate affordable artists studios. So the building is full, but primarily it's used as artist studio space. we're one of the few in the building, and there are others that use the space to share with others. So we actually don't occupy our space there. We use it for the residency program in an effort to share space and resources.

01:47:57:04 - 01:48:20:12
Unknown
So it's fully outfitted. It has a tech infrastructure. And then we we work with artists to provide the equipment that they need to spend time in this space where there is no you know, they don't have to pay anything to utilize the space or to access the equipment. and so that's one of the ways that we're working to combat some of the challenges in our local community.

01:48:20:14 - 01:48:44:23
Unknown
Oh, I love that red line. If you're not familiar with Red line is a spectacular gallery. I'm a big fan of Red line. If people wanted to apply to your residency, how would they find that? So it's primarily word of mouth. And so it's I go through a vetting process. And so it's either someone that I directly know or someone one that is known by someone that I know.

01:48:44:23 - 01:49:05:21
Unknown
And the reason is, is that we basically turn over the keys in an inventory. and so we want to make sure that it's someone that we have actions with, with the, dollar amount attached to that inventory. but anyone who's interested can email me, and my email is found on our website. or even the info email also comes to me.

01:49:05:21 - 01:49:27:18
Unknown
So I take all of those proposals and I usually ask that artists, send me a proposal so that I know what they're interested in doing. And then I typically schedule a conversation to find out what their needs are, to make sure that I'm scheduling them according to time in my schedule, or the availability of my board to meet their their associated needs.

01:49:27:20 - 01:49:55:02
Unknown
Wow, that's a lot of work. it's wonderful that you do that. it's really sweet that you're being so present with the artists. this leads me to my next question, which, as you stepped into this leadership role and as a female leader in the arts and tech, I would love to hear your thoughts about that and what advice you would give other women stepping into leadership roles in art and tech?

01:49:55:03 - 01:50:40:21
Unknown
You know, it's hard from the perspective of giving advice, because I think I don't take the advice that I would get. You know, one of the things that I see in the community, that there are a wealth of really amazing executive directors who, consequently, are mostly women who work just ridiculous hours. and so the amount of time that they spend invested in the nonprofit structures of their organization to be a resource to the community, to artists, to viewers and, people who patronize gallery spaces if they have a gallery space.

01:50:40:22 - 01:51:19:04
Unknown
I feel as though we need to do more surrounding having conversations about what that job actually looks like. And I've been working with a local community, task force, if you will. It doesn't really have a name of other nonprofit organization leaders to begin to address some of the questions related to work life balance. challenges in the funding models and then performing formulated and invested research to, to kind of assess some of the challenges that we're facing to find solutions.

01:51:19:06 - 01:51:44:09
Unknown
so for anyone who's looking at the nonprofit sector, the biggest thing that I would advise is that you have to be someone who is invested in others in in helping to facilitate opportunities and career growth for other people, which often comes at your own expense. I have an arts practice myself, and I find that it's always on the back burner.

01:51:44:11 - 01:52:16:22
Unknown
And what I've found is that other executive directors who are also makers themselves, experience a similar situation where they often find that at the end of the day, all of their creative energy has been spent through their role and there isn't a lot left over. And so that's the biggest thing that I'm working on now, is scaling to do less, saying no more and making sure to be protective of the time that I have for myself in order to engage in my own projects.

01:52:16:22 - 01:52:55:18
Unknown
And I think that that's where where my interest in this research project comes from, because, you know, there isn't for most nonprofits, and particularly mine, which focuses on non tangible art objects, there isn't a revenue stream. And so demonstrating value in relation to the role that this plays in our society, whether it's engagement in the arts, access to critical thinking through dialog, or learning new skill sets that translate broadly that these things have significant community value, that is outside of a capitalist model.

01:52:55:18 - 01:53:30:15
Unknown
You know, we're not we're not selling things. And that is one of the biggest challenges that I think I face. That's really true. It's it's leaning what you do leans definitely more towards fine art. And being able to do that and survive this. It's a lifelong challenge. as a board member of speaking of, of the arts centered nonprofit to West, where you are for focusing on the arts and discourse for the community, in case you didn't have the reference for what we are talking about right now.

01:53:30:17 - 01:54:00:22
Unknown
Sharifa, as an art historian, what are your thoughts right now on the way? Technology is going, the kind of submissions you're getting and what you'd like people to know as they submit to Denver? To Geraghty, I know that, part of what's happening and I'm watching it myself as a motion designer is the floodgates are kind of open to more people who maybe don't aren't schooled in some of the, artistic principles.

01:54:01:00 - 01:54:27:14
Unknown
And not that they don't have it, but it just makes it a much wider field to have to kind of sort through. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Yeah, I have several, so hopefully I can organize my brain. so the, the first thing is that I when I get up on my soapbox to talk about why I feel that my work is important.

01:54:27:16 - 01:54:51:23
Unknown
I can do a lot with a global slate of artists for very little money. because it's a file transfer, I and I often say I'm not building crates. We're shipping things across the world. I'm able to work with artists all over the world at the fraction of a budget that, say, a museum would for shipping paintings.

01:54:52:01 - 01:55:34:12
Unknown
and what that allows me to do is to engage in a global perspective of the world, of our interaction with each other and the artworks that are produced. And I think that that's hugely important. And there is a big part of me that feels as though media based works are the future in terms of being able to produce them with limited resources, to be able to share them broadly, and also for the sake of collaboration, that it allows you to collaborate with a really wide, variety of people that you wouldn't necessarily have access to in your own community.

01:55:34:14 - 01:56:03:11
Unknown
And I think that is really important. what I'm seeing, though, is this mix of and I'm a huge fan of the self-trained artist, and particularly in the realm of open source software. So like my artists that are using blender and making and credible work, and they completely bypass the academic system, which, you know, only a small fraction of of what the majority of schools teach is related to an arts practice.

01:56:03:11 - 01:56:25:11
Unknown
You know, it's a rounded education that isn't to fit for everyone. and as an educator, I see that in my students that they all have different personalities and ways of seeing the world. And I feel like it's my job as an educator to meet them where they are, rather than expecting them to conform. But with that being said, you know, higher ed is not a fit for everyone.

01:56:25:11 - 01:57:04:08
Unknown
And so I feel as though the access to open source software is vastly important to allow a lot of different makers to have their ideas be put into the world. what I see, though, and I think that in the last couple of years I've seen the floodgates open with regard to submissions created using AI. and what I always tell my students is that it's a really important tool that you can utilize to manipulate or modify what you've already made, but that I'm actually going to close the store.

01:57:04:08 - 01:57:34:11
Unknown
I'm so sorry. That's okay. There's a dog barking. That's okay. I think it's weird when it's being recorded. I didn't want a dog barking on your recording. that when you use it as a tool to help facilitate what you've already created, I think there's some really interesting ways that that can be done. And I've seen a few projects, from artists who have used AI to modify what they have already made.

01:57:34:11 - 01:58:00:05
Unknown
And I think that those can be very interesting. What I'm getting, though, is a large number of submissions where AI is used for scriptwriting, where it is given a prompt and the full script is written, or the visual input is completely created. through machine learning and those I don't find them that interesting. They tend to be a lot longer and, in duration.

01:58:00:07 - 01:58:35:20
Unknown
so say, you know, where the average is like 5 to 10 minutes. You know, the AI pieces tend to come in around like 25 to 30 minutes. Well, but they don't have a strong narrative arc. the visuals are really starting to look canned. They all look largely the same with very little difference. And so I think that there are a lot of people who perhaps don't have the original imaginative thinking to create the story that they want to put out into the world.

01:58:36:00 - 01:59:15:15
Unknown
And we know that that that's really challenging. I mean, even if we look at the film industry of how many ideas get recycled over and over again, it's a special skill set. It's really hard. So I don't want to minimize how difficult it can be, but I think that it's actually a time because there are so many ideas, that artwork is ubiquitous, there's so much being pumped out into the public sphere that it's more important than ever for people to focus on their own unique perspective, the way that they see the world, which is something that only they have to offer.

01:59:15:17 - 01:59:45:12
Unknown
it is something that can't be replicated that that can't be, created out of thin air. And I think that that returning to that is the idea of, where good art comes from is from good ideas, and that that is the most important thing. Oh, I love that. I am a big advocate. of coming back to what makes us human is the tools become more and more sophisticated and can do more and more.

01:59:45:18 - 02:00:08:23
Unknown
I do feel like that human connection in that human element, in that human experience is going to become more and more valuable to us. I, I cannot agree more with you. we are in an election year right now, and usually what happens is you can predict the trends that will come the following year based on how advertising works in an election year.

02:00:09:01 - 02:00:34:06
Unknown
And I'm watching it right now, and I'm seeing a lot of AI, a lot of AR, VR. I'm seeing a lot of, holograms coming online. So I'd love to hear your thoughts about potential upcoming trends that maybe you're noticing in submissions or just in the art word world in general, and what we might kind of expect to see in the next year.

02:00:34:08 - 02:01:02:11
Unknown
Yeah, I, you know, interestingly, in thinking about immersive work, I have been more interested in challenging what it means to be immersed. And so thinking about using immersive theater as, you kind of an inspiration and thinking about what that looks like. So, for example, this year for the festival, we are partnering with the Nature and Science Museum, which I'm really excited about.

02:01:02:11 - 02:01:28:20
Unknown
It's a new partnership, on their infinity screen, which is, it's the Imax size, but they don't want it more. Just to give you an idea, because I know that not everyone is, familiar with the term infinity screen. but we're running a film that is an experimental film that will also have a live sound composition, interaction with viewers and then also live singing.

02:01:28:20 - 02:01:52:15
Unknown
So thinking about how we engage in an immersive experience as one that is shared rather than singular. So I, we've run a lot of VR projects over the last few years, but it's an experience where you're having it alone. And so I am currently really interested in how we come back to community and come back towards shared experience.

02:01:52:16 - 02:02:23:07
Unknown
And so I am seeing more and more of that in the performance space. And I'm hugely interested in this space where there are collaborations between artists that come from disparate mediums. I also run an underground performance, series with an art, a local artist named Joshua Ware, who's a sculptor and a poet. and we mix people together that have never met, and that they have very little time to come up with a performance.

02:02:23:09 - 02:02:46:11
Unknown
And I think that that trend of really kind of doubling down on performance art is something that is growing, at least here in Denver, in significant ways and showing a lot of interest. I think that people are actually interested in being together, and that that is something that we saw at the end of the pandemic that is continuing in these really beautiful ways.

02:02:46:13 - 02:03:12:11
Unknown
and that is the, the, the trend that I see likely to continue, in regard to it being an election year, you know, our theme for this year, Decode Recode, we really were interested in people who are subverting dominant ideologies and and wanting to push into the political framework to get, works that that are made along along those lines.

02:03:12:13 - 02:03:40:23
Unknown
What was interesting, though, is that while they are political works, we received a surprising number of submissions from women, and so it has shifted the whole theme of the festival this year into works that are made by, for and about the experiences of women. And I think not just body autonomy, but more broadly about the experience of women.

02:03:40:23 - 02:04:04:13
Unknown
And I think that that was, you know, it was it was unexpected in the way that it took form. And I'm really excited to this program this year. I am I'm really proud of, and I feel as though people who get to come and see the screenings that we're showing are going to also feel that same connection to the artists that have created these works.

02:04:04:13 - 02:04:27:17
Unknown
And I see this continuing. I think that there have been so many changes, and in the legislation in the United States in the last, you know, couple of years, and people are responding very strongly to that. And I think that we'll continue to see works along those lines as well. Oh, I love that. That's so exciting to me as a female in this world as well.

02:04:27:17 - 02:04:52:03
Unknown
I love seeing women step up. I love seeing them move into tech and have a broader voice that makes me super happy. Excuse me. so what is next? Speaking out for Denver. Dr. Girardi, you've got this upcoming programing. I'm assuming it's on your side. If people would like to come and see the screenings and, next year and the following year, what's your trajectory?

02:04:52:05 - 02:05:20:07
Unknown
Yeah. actually, the the programing will not be out until August 1st. So we just sent our acceptance notifications yesterday. So I'll be working on building the website and also shifting it into, accessibility requirements for the state. So that's what we'll be working on for all of July. And the full program will come out August 1st. But I can say that our, opening will be on September 15th and our closing on September 21st of this year.

02:05:20:07 - 02:05:48:13
Unknown
So that date range, if anyone wants to hold dates, and we will likely do some online programing this year as well. next year is our 10th year and I'm excited about that. And, you know, one of the things that we didn't really talk about today is the intersections of queer artists making digital artwork that, is a huge part of artists that we represent and also work that we like to showcase.

02:05:48:15 - 02:06:10:01
Unknown
and so for year ten, I really I'm, I'm interested in a, highlighting those works. And I have a lot of them this year. Obviously we're going to show them this year. but making that a centerpiece of the festival for the next season. so we're still thinking through, I mean, we haven't come up with a theme.

02:06:10:03 - 02:06:46:18
Unknown
but there's just brilliant artists out there that we would love to, just provide the centerpiece for a, an in-person, party like atmosphere for our 10th year alteration of a full decade of the festival. And, you know, I, I don't know what the future brings. I think that I try to always be nimble and I want to be able to pivot, to meet the needs of whatever the community is, is desiring at a given time.

02:06:46:18 - 02:07:05:04
Unknown
And so it's hard to answer that question in terms of of really being able to predict, what's going to happen. I love that, I love that you're doing that next year. I've got to find a way to get there that's going to be amazing. Please come. I would love it. I would love it. I'm going to find a way.

02:07:05:06 - 02:07:42:01
Unknown
so I'd like to shift gears over to your PhD program, which you're entering this fall, I believe. Is that correct? Yes. Yeah. So what prompted you to go to this PhD program? And, the research that you're looking to do, doing for the nonprofit sector? I'm just curious, like what prompted your choice to do this? You know, honestly, I so and obviously it's not in my bio or part of the information that's online about me, but I didn't go back to school until really late in my life.

02:07:42:03 - 02:08:13:18
Unknown
I, I'm a person that didn't have access to education. And so to be perfectly honest, I never thought of getting a PhD. That just did not seem like something that was in the cards for me. and actually, to be honest, going through the application process really revealed the ways in which academia can be very diverse in terms of the conversation surrounding race, but not always as diverse in terms of the conversation surrounding class.

02:08:13:20 - 02:08:35:18
Unknown
and I found that to be interesting in, in, in just my experiences of, of those intersections, which obviously, there is no one size fits all and I don't want to make any generalizations about any program or school, but, I have often felt as though I don't fit in. So I think that's kind of the root of that feeling.

02:08:35:19 - 02:09:03:20
Unknown
and one of my, board members and collaborators, Kevin Sweet, who has just been a pivotal person in my life. We in fact, when I was developing my thesis, I don't think that my master's thesis would have taken form if it weren't for him listening to me talk about it for hours and hours. and through those conversations, he was the one that was like, you know, you really should do a PhD program, given the things that you're thinking about and the things that you're interested in.

02:09:03:22 - 02:09:43:17
Unknown
So it was the culmination of many hours of conversation that made me decide to apply. And and then that was a long, kind of convoluted process. And then I got in. And then I have been, you know, coping with the anxieties surrounding like, okay, I got into this program, now I have to actually do the work. in addition, like, I'm a single parent, I have kids, I work, you know, so there's there's a lot that I'm juggling that I feel, you know, an amount of anxiety surrounding whether or not I'm going to be able to show up in a way that I expected of myself.

02:09:43:19 - 02:10:06:17
Unknown
but I'm excited about it. I think that the faculty is wonderful. There are a few people up at CU Boulder that I'm so excited to work with, and, it's a really welcoming atmosphere. The other students are welcoming, the faculty is welcoming. So I think that that is what makes me feel like I can be successful. in terms of what I want to do.

02:10:06:17 - 02:10:33:11
Unknown
And this is a it's a practice led by PhD you. So you do a traditional dissertation in addition to having an arts practice. So there is this also there is also this motivation of I have to make artwork. And so I will center myself a little bit more because it's part of the requirements of this program. And so interestingly, I'm, I'm wanting to shift into more of an ecological direction with my work.

02:10:33:11 - 02:10:56:06
Unknown
And that is something that's new to me. So doing the research surrounding what that looks like and how that practice will develop, in addition to looking at a chapter based model for my dissertation, I'm interested in this territory. Research on the nonprofit sector. But kind of the umbrella of my research is looking at that which cannot be commodified.

02:10:56:08 - 02:11:21:21
Unknown
and I'm interested in ephemeral artworks, performance based artworks and the importance that they, that they, that they add to to the art world in general, but that they don't have the same type of place. When we think of, like going to a museum to look at artwork that going to see an experimental performance is usually not part of that visit.

02:11:21:22 - 02:11:47:13
Unknown
but nonetheless equally as important in my mind. So I'm, I'm really excited to dig into these concepts and also figure out how they're all related. I think that they are related, but I need to create those, like concrete connections between them. So what's so interesting to me about that too, is that a lot of technology has a pretty dark shadow as far as its environmental impact.

02:11:47:13 - 02:12:26:11
Unknown
How do you feel about that? You know, I, I think that there are the larger corporate entities are responsible for a significant amount of the environmental impact, and that what I do with my laptop at home is not contributing in the same manner. And I, I feel as though we live in a world now between war and climate change and all of that and expense, you know, expensive cost of living, that the only thing that we can do is, is kind of hyper focus on what's in front of us.

02:12:26:13 - 02:12:50:22
Unknown
and so I try, I, I feel as though I'm a very empathetic person, and I do become really bogged down by staying in the know. And so sometimes I am kind of blissfully unaware of things that are going on in the world, because it's the only way that I can go through my day and so, like all of the things that I do, I think of the ways in which I can have direct impact.

02:12:50:22 - 02:13:21:17
Unknown
So if it's sharing a resource, providing something that I can actually, tangibly and concretely help with, then that's what I focus on. And I try to, kind of keep blinders on. I mean, I know that there are people who would would argue that that's a form of ignorance, but I do think that if I cannot make systemic, broad change and some of these bigger, overarching problematics, I can in these smaller ways through my daily activities and my work.

02:13:21:17 - 02:13:49:01
Unknown
And that's where I choose to focus. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. There's no point in being overwhelmed is in if you're overwhelmed, you can't do anything. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I understand that, I have a question here from our lovely Darren. He says, I know it's different from everyone, and I'd like to hear what the top 2 to 3 environments or scenarios are that inspire creative thinking on a personal level.

02:13:49:01 - 02:13:52:14
Unknown
To Sharifa.

02:13:52:16 - 02:14:26:04
Unknown
Can you clarify what you mean by environments? Hold on a minute. Pull up the questions so I can read it. It's in the chat. Yeah. Darren, do you have a clarification for the yeah settings outside of a direct I the biggest thing for me is being out in nature. I, I actually had a significant yoga practice for like 20 years and, and during the pandemic, it was all I did.

02:14:26:04 - 02:14:48:12
Unknown
It was the only thing that would help me to get into a healthy mental space. But what I found in about a year ago is that I could no longer tap into that mental space through my meditation practice, and I'm not really sure what happened. but I have been able to find it through hiking, and so I, and I use the term hiking loosely.

02:14:48:12 - 02:15:11:01
Unknown
I'm not an athletic person, so it's like I'm surely walking away. but I tend to hike every single day, and I, I go out, I usually block out an hour or two in the evenings. I go before sunset. So there really isn't anyone. Everyone hikes in the morning, which to me it's hot. I think it's the worst time to go.

02:15:11:03 - 02:15:33:02
Unknown
I go out as the sun's going down and Colorado is really dry. But as as we start to reach dusk, you can feel the humidity in the air rise. And so it is this different environment. And I really enjoy being out in the forest. And so I don't know, I don't imagine myself living in the mountains indefinitely.

02:15:33:02 - 02:16:01:23
Unknown
So I don't know how I'll replace that. But for the time being, that is one of the most important things for me every day. And having periods of time where I'm disconnected, I don't know. I don't know if you've experienced this, Heather or Darrin. If you have, I am really bogged down by email and I. I cannot quite understand where the issue is coming from, but, email and the constant connectedness is negatively impactful for me.

02:16:01:23 - 02:16:29:00
Unknown
So finding ways to disconnect and and not be on a computer or not be at the beck and call of other people has been something that I've been prioritizing. and then actually, I had a great experience over the weekend, which is new, but I am going to continue to do it. one of my close friends, John Cena, took me for my birthday to, sensory deprivation tank.

02:16:29:02 - 02:16:52:06
Unknown
and it was so wonderful. It you, like, lay in, in salt water and in the dark. and we did a 90 minute session. It was it was wonderful and I, I also because I'm in my 40s now, I'm having joint pain. So like I am never comfortable. I'm constantly shifting and trying to find a position of comfort.

02:16:52:11 - 02:17:16:15
Unknown
But laying in that water, I was like, I do not experience stillness very frequently because I always have to shift due to joint pain. And so that was amazing. and so I definitely think that there's something to that where you're just removed from everything and in a position where I.

02:17:16:17 - 02:17:38:12
Unknown
I yeah, I actually well and I went in and I was like, I'm going to sort through some of these things that I need to sort through mentally. I'm responding to True's comment, and she said that her mind would not shut off. I actually ended up not really thinking about anything, which was fascinating because I didn't struggle to get into that space.

02:17:38:12 - 02:18:00:23
Unknown
I wasn't trying to redirect my thoughts. I really just wasn't thinking about anything. And that was amazing because that doesn't happen to me. so it was a really wonderful experience. But I think that I think that creativity, one of the things I always tell my kids is that if you want to be creative, allow yourself to be bored.

02:18:01:01 - 02:18:28:06
Unknown
And I think that that is something for me that I am trying to tap into more. It's allowing myself opportunities where there is nothing to take my attention. Yeah, I get that completely. There's something about the speed at which things are happening, in the speed and the intensity of the constant communication. It does get very, at least for me, very overwhelming.

02:18:28:08 - 02:18:55:06
Unknown
And I too, I made a practice of shutting my phone off for periods of time and getting outside and just giving myself space, because I do think technology occupies such a huge part of our brain. And it's it's like being overstimulated. and I do have concerns as we adapt to this level of overstimulation. Usually it puts us at sort of, like off balance.

02:18:55:06 - 02:19:23:10
Unknown
So something has to be sacrificed in order for us to maintain that attention. yeah. And I do have concerns going forward about what we are giving up in order to have this hyper engagement. Yeah, it's it's concerning. Well, you know, and I, another artist who I had a great conversation with, but he's worth mentioning in the chat, Ian Hatcher, the performance artist and also up at CU Boulder.

02:19:23:12 - 02:19:55:13
Unknown
I went up to visit with him the other day, and we were watching this video that I had scanned and of it was a fitness, basically infomercial put out by Disney, and I think it was from the 60s or 70s. but we were just watching this video and kind of laughing at how exercise practice is something that has been incorporated into society in in an effort to counteract the ways that we've shifted in to not being active as humans.

02:19:55:15 - 02:20:16:19
Unknown
and so we we went down this rabbit hole of conversation and talking about mindfulness practices and that that is now such a big part of the vernacular, likely because we're always connected and we need to create space where we're disconnecting from each other. So we're not on social media, we're not on email, we're not on our commute computers.

02:20:16:21 - 02:20:40:05
Unknown
But again, it's all of these maladaptive strategies that we come up with to counteract the ways that we live, that are harmful for us. And I thought that that was he's a brilliant thinker and always brings up these really poignant aspects of humanity that I appreciate. And I have like one more question for you, and then I will open it up to anybody else.

02:20:40:05 - 02:21:07:09
Unknown
This question, one of my questions for you is, as we move into this new world of hyper technology and storytelling becomes and the human element becomes more and more important, how can people tap into that? Or where do they start if they get to a point where they recognize, oh, I'm getting too many denials from submissions, I can't figure out what it is.

02:21:07:11 - 02:21:55:16
Unknown
How do they, learn more about the art of storyteller? Link? It's a big question. I hear a lot of educators ask this question a lot, and I will say, I don't know the answer, but I know things that that that help and help from, you know, a statistical range of this being and practiced and looked at. But, I think that frequent making is really important, having a regular and consistent practice that is actually not focused on creating something that we would categorize is good, but just engaging in, in regular making.

02:21:55:16 - 02:22:26:14
Unknown
And I think that the more that we make, the better we become, because we become more practiced in what we're looking at and the ways that we are initiating the formation of ideas. I also think that looking at, you know, whatever medium someone's working in, looking at that medium consistently, I know for myself in terms of my own filmmaking practice, I look at so much content.

02:22:26:16 - 02:23:02:12
Unknown
and I specialize in shorts, but, I have watched over 2000 shorts in the last 12 months. Wow. Which is a lot. It's actually the most I've watched, and in a year's time in my career so far. But what I've noticed and it'll diminish, especially as I move away from the time of reviewing content. But right now, I'm kind of in this like all cylinders firing phase in terms of I am able to see bad cuts, like where there should be an edit, where there should be or the story is falling off.

02:23:02:14 - 02:23:28:13
Unknown
And so I think that and that is purely just by watching that, I'm looking at so much content that I'm developing a vocabulary surrounding my own taste, and that's always going to be individualized. It's not something that is ever going to uniformly apply, but I am developing my own taste structures surrounding my preferences, what I like, what I don't like.

02:23:28:15 - 02:23:50:04
Unknown
and so I think the combination of those two things I think are really important, and what I notice in my students is that they often will say, just tell me what you want me to make. And I am very, I do not create a lot of structure. I create scaffolding for them to follow, but not a lot of structure.

02:23:50:06 - 02:24:13:00
Unknown
And I usually on my fcks at the end of the semester, what I usually get is I hated this and it was the most helpful thing for me. And so I think that's also like you just gotta you just have to do the thing and do it a lot. Yeah. Growth is so hard. It can't. Getting out of your comfort zone and doing things that you don't like to do or you're not used to doing, it is hard.

02:24:13:02 - 02:24:40:03
Unknown
Yeah, it is. All right. So we are at 1246. I'm just going to open it up right now. If Devon and Tru have any other questions for you. and while I'm up here, here, we've got one right here. So when it comes to shared experiences that bring people together, are there any brands, physical or digital experiences or potential uses for tech that you see are especially exciting?

02:24:40:03 - 02:25:15:07
Unknown
And this is from Devon. I'm actually going to pull a quote from someone else. I, I produced a series of documentary years last year, and we're going to start releasing them as part of the festival. But one of the documentaries was about Deborah and Jason Bernard Cozzi, who run a nonprofit called Signal Culture. And we they do experimental performance, they build software, they have a residency program, they do amazing work.

02:25:15:09 - 02:25:45:02
Unknown
But in the interview, Jason said, one of the most poignant things that has stuck with me and we use it. It's like the sound bite that I keep coming back to. he talked about the ways in which industry provides technology and that we shouldn't be using technology as it's handed to us by corporate entities is that we should be finding new ways of using it and breaking it and finding alternative use, alternative usage.

02:25:45:04 - 02:26:18:15
Unknown
and that is the most exciting thing to me when I see artists who are taking something that they bought from a thrift store and modifying it to produce something that is different than its intended use. and to me, that's the most exciting thing. I mean, it's what it's what Raquel's work embodies is, you know, creating animated films on Commodore computers that were, that's not really how they were intended to be used, although that was a side function.

02:26:18:15 - 02:26:46:13
Unknown
The ways that she has utilized that to make it her own and to make it unique and interesting. And I also think that that's at the root of where some of the best work comes in, because if you are taking a piece of software or a piece of technology and using it exactly as it's intended, you're going to produce exactly the same thing as a large majority of the people who are also using that technology are following that tutorial.

02:26:46:14 - 02:27:11:00
Unknown
So I think looking at ways to break things is one of the best ways to be, unique and and finding ways to make something your own. I can agree more, Sharifa. That's all I have for you today. I want to thank you so much for joining us on the Developing Life podcast. It is so wonderful to see you again.

02:27:11:02 - 02:27:35:21
Unknown
And for those people out there who would like to connect with Shari, if you can find her at Denver, de Gerardi, you can also follow her on LinkedIn. under Sharif Laffan. Do I have that right? I go, okay, and, she will be out and about at the festival later this fall. Check out what Denver did Girardi has going on.

02:27:35:23 - 02:28:07:11
Unknown
oh, and Darren is asking, quickly here before we close this, if you could give a shout out to any influences you have, he would love to hear a few suggestions. Oh, I have so many influences of people that I think make fabulous work. You know, one of the biggest influences in my life is Oliver Herring, who, is a Brooklyn based artist who's born in Germany and his work is brilliant, but I have access to Oliver through.

02:28:07:11 - 02:28:32:09
Unknown
I've printed a lot of his work over the years, so I've worked for him. but because of that, I've had access to a lot of conversations, and he actually will be a chapter of my dissertation as well. but he has been hugely influential to my work in being able to see the ways in which he approaches his own, the way he sees the world, the way he thinks about things.

02:28:32:09 - 02:29:02:18
Unknown
And he is incredibly thoughtful and also very careful not to rush anything. He thinks about his ideas and their impact for a long time. That that I think is really beautiful and inspiring. so he's a huge influence for me. Aaron Ascoli, who is, a professor at CU Boulder and a filmmaker that also crosses these intersections between art and science.

02:29:02:20 - 02:29:35:02
Unknown
her work is amazing. And she actually her work when I look at her work, it makes me feel is that I can never be a fool. but nonetheless very inspiring. but she's also a gifted writer and an incredibly kind person. and then Jeff Lamson, who was my mentor at the Q Emmanuel Gallery and experience Gallery, Jeff was what I'm finding now, the longer that I'm in my career is that people like Jeff are really rare.

02:29:35:04 - 02:29:58:13
Unknown
he includes everyone and everything, and he is not so interested in hierarchies, both through his management style and also how he exists as a person. But he's fantastic. and I've gotten to know both he and his wife, Ann, who works at the Denver Art Museum. And so I feel like that group of people, I could go on forever.

02:29:58:13 - 02:30:20:03
Unknown
Maria. But at CU Denver, there are so many people that have been mentors to me and have really shaped who I am. And, after I hang, after we hang up, I'm going to feel bad for all of the wonderful people that I haven't mentioned. I think that's like focusing on community and surrounding yourself with people that inspire you.

02:30:20:03 - 02:30:42:10
Unknown
And I try to do that with everyone that I give my time to. So there isn't anyone in my life that isn't hugely inspiring to me. I think that's a beautiful place to end, and you are welcome to send us a list if you would like that, we will post under the your video of more of your, influence says I would love to get as many names out there as possible.

02:30:42:12 - 02:31:01:01
Unknown
Wonderful. I will do that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Sharif, it's lovely to see you. I hope it doesn't, so much time doesn't pass before we actually can speak again. Thank you everybody who's watching this podcast. And have a wonderful week. You know, you too.